The need to win can become a source of dissatisfaction at work when success stops being something you enjoy and becomes something you feel you must achieve. For high achievers, that pressure can affect judgment, undermine personal values, and make even a successful career feel unfulfilling. In this episode of Joy at Work, Lucia Knight talks with recruiter Suzanne Fuller about recognizing when a powerful professional driver is no longer serving you—and how letting go can create more freedom, opportunity, and joy at work.
When Does the Drive to Succeed Become a Problem?
Ambition isn't necessarily the problem. It's what happens when the need to succeed begins making decisions for you.
Suzanne spent years in a competitive recruitment environment where winning was everything. She was successful by the company's standards, but she became far more concerned with the business she lost than the business she won.
That need to win even led her to pursue clients whose values and business practices she didn't respect.
As Suzanne puts it:
“They could be covered in red flags and I would staple green flags to them so that I could win that thing.”
The drive that had helped her succeed was also affecting her judgment.
It's worth asking: Is something that once motivated you now pushing you toward choices you don't actually want to make?
What Happens When Success Becomes Part of Your Identity?
Letting go of an old motivation isn't always a relief. Sometimes it creates an uncomfortable question about who you are without it.
Suzanne's turning point came when she lost a business pitch and discovered that, for the first time, she didn't mind.
Rather than feeling relieved, she questioned whether she'd lost the very quality that made her successful.
Her experience reveals an important distinction: changing what drives you doesn't necessarily mean losing your ambition or ability. But when achievement has become central to your identity, that change can feel unsettling.
Can You Still Be Ambitious Without Needing to Win?
Yes—and that's the distinction Suzanne eventually discovered.
She still enjoys winning. What changed was her willingness to accept failure.
“There is no room for failure in that bucket, but there is in this one.”
Without the same pressure to win, Suzanne found herself more willing to take risks, explore different interests, contribute to causes she cared about, and establish clearer boundaries at work.
The change wasn't about doing less or caring less. It was about having more freedom to choose what mattered to her.
How Do You Recognize When Something No Longer Serves You?
Suzanne doesn't offer a formula for changing deeply ingrained motivations. Her advice is simpler: notice when something no longer feels right, trust yourself, and forgive yourself for not recognizing it sooner.
That may be the most useful place to begin.
You don't necessarily need to abandon the qualities that helped you build your career. But you can question whether they're still helping you create the kind of work and life you want.
Listen to the full conversation with Suzanne Fuller to hear how an unexpected loss became the beginning of a more joyful relationship with work.
What's Standing Between You and More Joy at Work?
If Suzanne's experience has you questioning what's driving your own work, Lucia's Boost Your Joy at Work Quiz is a practical next step.
Discover your joy readiness score, your easiest quick win, and a blind spot that may be holding you back from work you'd love to keep doing.
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[00:00:00] When Winning Starts to Cost You
Suzanne Fuller: I found it absolutely delicious until, until I didn't. But the weird thing was, I cared so much more about the losses than I did about the wins.
That those are the, that's what would keep me up at night. I'd be like, why didn't I win that? What did I do wrong? Why didn't they say yes to me? How could they not? Oh, the arrogance is wild.
Lucia Knight: Suzanne Fuller and I shared similar careers and brushed up against each other for years, and people always said great things about her. In a conversation a few weeks ago, she shared an experience around a huge shift in her work life, ego and identity that while painful at first, has allowed her to create so much more joy in her work life.
She articulated it so beautifully. I've asked her to come and share it with you. Let's dive in.
Suzanne, when we were talking recently, you shared an observation about a moment in your career when you, a self-defined type A personality, learned to let go of your ego. No one talks about this. Can you tell me a bit more about that?
Suzanne Fuller: Yeah, and it's really interesting 'cause talking that through with you helped me to crystallise quite what a big thing it was and I've been reflecting on it since.
[00:01:26] The Hidden Cost of Needing to Win
Suzanne Fuller: So I'm a recruiter, which it's sales really isn't it? Let's be honest. And so there's a big hunt drive with that.
When I first started recruitment, I worked at a kind of global finance recruitment business. Bit toxic, really very very win-lose focus. Like literally you're a, a winner or a loser.
And it was super, super clear who was what. And that really appealed to me. And as a type A person, I guess it should, because you have to win. And I found it absolutely delicious until, until I didn't. But the behaviours around that were quite interesting because I was really good at recruitment, if you judge by what that business judged as good, which has made loads of money.
Now, whether or not I was actually a good recruiter, probably debatable, but I made lots of money. So that's what they cared about and that's what mattered. But the weird thing was, I cared so much more about the losses than I did about the wins. So my pitch rate was really high, but I would only care about the ones that I didn't win.
And yeah, it's wild, isn't it? That those are the, that's what would keep me up at night. I'd be like, why didn't I win that? What did I do wrong? Why didn't they say yes to me? How could they not? Oh, the arrogance is wild. Really messed up my judgement .
Outside of work and now luckily in work, I've got a real kind of strong, no, a-hole rule.
But I would meet these founders of businesses and I would not like them. I would not like their style. I would hate how they were running their business, but I still had to win. So they could be covered in red flags and I would staple green flags to them so that I could win that thing.
And I suppose I was there for about six or seven years and then I realised that I just didn't I just didn't like it anymore. It wasn't for me, it wasn't fulfilling. I didn't wanna be that person anymore.
[00:03:18] The Moment Losing Stopped Mattering
Suzanne Fuller: But it still took me ages to figure out that I cared so much more about winning than I would let myself believe. it must have happened really incrementally. But one day I did a pitch.
I didn't want it. I didn't wanna win it. I didn't like the guy. And I just observed. After I found out, like I hadn't won it, that I just, I didn't mind. And that for me was like, whoa, why don't I mind, what does that mean? Does that mean I've lost it? Should I not be doing this anymore? It was genuine.
It was such a weird thing, but it was so big and it took me a while to get over that. Honestly. It really did.
Lucia Knight: So I'm curious about what differences have you noticed in your work life, obviously, but also in your real life beyond work since that day?
[00:04:11] Who Are You Without the Need to Win?
Suzanne Fuller: So initially it was quite uncomfortable because that box that I used to fill full of win that box was empty now. So it was like I've got two choices now. I try and stuff other stuff in to try and fulfil that kind of need, or I do the really hard thing, which is just not do that.
But the upshot of it was that after a period of time, I realised that because I didn't need to do that anymore. I had so many more opportunities. I thought the weird thing is the kind of identity crisis moment was if I'm not, if I'm not good at this, what have I got to offer?
If I can't do this, what do I do? And everyone talks about when you're ready, good things find you. But it's allowed me to diversify, to help other people to pursue other interests, to do loads of other stuff.
Lucia Knight: Wow. I haven't thought exactly about this question before, but that bucket that you used to fill with wins? Yeah. The ego bucket. The identity bucket, what, whatever it is. Yeah. Is it just being filled with other things or does it just not exist anymore?
[00:05:22] Making Room for Failure, Freedom, and Joy
Suzanne Fuller: Oh yeah. Okay. I think, okay, if we stick on the bucket analogy, I reckon that bucket's got a lid on it. That's not to say that I still don't wanna win because I do, I like to win, but I think that a lot of this is aligned with acceptance of failure as well. There is no room for failure in that bucket, but there is in this one,
Lucia Knight: Ah,
Suzanne Fuller: I'm not scared of that anymore.
Lucia Knight: so that the bucket that you're in at the moment where there's room for failure, what does that allow you to do?
Suzanne Fuller: Allows me to take risks, allows me to not, it allow, it allows me to show up for myself and for other people in ways that I didn't feel qualified to do before or that I worried about in case I wasn't perfect at it, or in case I let myself down or someone else down. Now I just think I'll just do my best and that's okay.
Lucia Knight: Wonderful.
Suzanne Fuller: And it's, it's wild what I get to do now. I get to invest in businesses. I'm a trustee for an LGBTQ plus charity. I'm a mentor for a veterans charity. It's so cool.
Lucia Knight: And if you still only had the bucket available, which was win, you wouldn't be doing all these other things,
Suzanne Fuller: I probably wouldn't, and if I did, it would be because it, I felt that I should do it rather than I can, and I want to.
Lucia Knight: Ah, fabulous. Absolutely fabulous. Is it any more joyful, this second bucket where failure can exist and it's more diversified?
Suzanne Fuller: It's so joyful this year. It is so joyful. It's far more scary
Lucia Knight: Okay.
Suzanne Fuller: It's terrifying,
Lucia Knight: Okay.
Suzanne Fuller: but that's conquering and doing your best at something that you don't know if you'll be good at is. That's gotta be way more satisfying, isn't it? It's for me anyway.
Lucia Knight: Magic. Because very few people talk about this in the way that you have, it's really powerful and vulnerable. So if everything you've said has somehow landed well with someone what might they do or what little suggestions might they have about where to start?
[00:07:26] When Something No Longer Serves You, Trust Yourself
Suzanne Fuller: It's really hard to come up with tangible suggestions on this. It really is, I think. I think identity crises or changes in identity, like they just happen and death or greater extents throughout your whole life. It's just the feature of life is things change. Sometimes you do it on purpose. Sometimes you don't need notice, I think. I think if you are noticing that you don't need to win anymore or something isn't serving you, trust yourself. That would be my best advice. And forgive yourself because it's so easy, particularly for Type A people to go, what an idiot. It's taken you this long to do it. You absolute idiot. Why didn't you notice this before?
Just don't do that.
Lucia Knight: So just be gentle with yourself as
well Yeah, I think so.
Brilliant. And if I had a window into your work life and I was watching you in this new bucket of work and life that you're living in at the moment, what might I notice about the way that you do work or how you look when you're doing work that is different than the way you used to do work that tells you that this is more joyful?
[00:08:36] What More Joy at Work Looks Like
Suzanne Fuller: You would find a way more authentic person,
Lucia Knight: Okay. What does that look like?
Suzanne Fuller: it looks like vulnerability. It looks like far more ownership. It looks like far more freedom and it feels and looks like a lot more creation around boundaries too. So for example, someone said to me today, oh, the only time that I can speak is out of hours.
So now I have been saying this for quite a while, but it's an example of me kind of holding a boundary, which is, do you know what? I don't work outside of work hours. So that's cool. That's fine then.
[00:09:07] Take the Boost Your Joy at Work Quiz
Lucia Knight: When you're ready for more, take the Boost Your Joy at work quiz. I built it for experienced people who know that more joy at work is possible, but they're just not sure where to start. This is where to start. You'll discover your joy readiness score, your easiest quick win, and your biggest blind spot so that you can start moving immediately towards work that you might want to do forever.
